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Please read and respond to Less Talk But Better Teacher Feedback here. (250 words and respond to a minimum of 2 classmates' posts)

As I’m reading this, I can’t help but think I’m being grouchy today. It’s either that or I just play on the Devil’s Advocate side of the fence, because while I’m reading the examples of these redirects in Figures 1 and 2, I can only picture the fight that will happen on the playground afterwards. The environment of the classes that I deal with would turn a “what do you think about Joe’s answer?” into a bullying session on the way home. I realize there’s a lot of classroom comfort that has to be in place for the students to not take that personally, but it hasn’t been my experience that critiquing each other in an argument-based format goes over very well with the grade levels I deal with every day. Even worse, targeting poor Gary the way she did (not once, but twice!) would do anything BUT encourage him to be involved next time they have a discussion like this. In fact, I’d be surprised if Gary didn’t get a write up at some point during that day, because if he’s already set off to the point that he’s not participating, then this is just going to close him up more! So, you’re going to ask, “Well, Tiff (or smartee-pants, or any number of other names you could insert here), how would YOU do it?” (I promise I’m not offended! I’ve done it, too!). I would probably start with not being specific about who I was talking to, even though I’d park myself right next to Gary and pointedly toss that question out while I was looking at the data (or lack thereof) on his data collection sheets. Start with questions more like, “What kinds of living things have lungs?” and “How do those things compare to a seed?” Then I’d direct them, as a group, to build a compare and contrast chart between one of those things and a specific seed and WALK AWAY. On my next trip (and I’d make them regular visits to each group to keep it from looking like I was harassing Gary AND to help monitor the progress in the other groups), I’d stop in and see how the discussion was going. If Gary was still not participating, I’d give him a seed and have him illustrate it for his group. During that conversation, I would expect to hear about characteristics of the seed he’s holding and whether they appear on the compare and contrast list they created earlier and if I didn’t hear it, I’d be tossing in some general redirections and a “Look at THAT!” or two to draw their attention to a part that is either there or not there. Then, if this became a class discussion/wrap up, I would use Gary’s illustration as the basis for the class discussion and, if he wanted to, have him explain his hypothesis about whether a seed has lungs or not, based on what he observed while he was illustrating. I will add here that I have a standard “don’t make fun of anyone else’s illustrations because you can’t pick on me and I draw stick people” rule for illustrations in my lab. I am always pleasantly surprised when kids who don’t hesitate to pick on each other about EVERYTHING ELSE will avoid picking on each other about drawings because I pick on myself about them!

This article offered techniques to improve the way teachers refocus discussions and promote student interactions in our science classes. We often have whole class and small group discussions, but the article suggests teachers talk less by improving our feedback and facilitating skills. As I read this article, I immediately pictured my weary pre-Spring Break fifth graders, and how starting science discussions the past couple days was met with silence and apathy. (insert cricket chirping sound here) What we need to do is get the students involved in a discussion while we offer redirection that uses a lot of student ideas in the conversation. The teacher can ask students what they think about what other students are saying and whether they agree or disagree. In the example feedback that was given, the teacher did not ask the student to “tell me,” but it was more along the lines of “tell Billy what you think about that.” My only concern is being able to get that quiet/defiant student to share what they are thinking about their work and their classmates’ work. Does anyone have ideas for this type of student? I suppose in a science lab situation, once a student conversation is going, I could ask a student to tell me how their experiment shows…whatever it is I want discussed. Then I could ask another student if they agree with that observation in order to keep the conversation among the students. This is definitely something I will try in the near future…maybe even before Spring Break.

Craig: I've found that when you figure out what that student is good at, you focus on it. Most of my defiant students are really good artists (I can only assume because they've been doodling on their paper instead of paying attention for years prior to walking in my door). I focus on that and ask them to "draw this for me, because I can't draw worth a hoot!" It makes them feel better because they're better at something than I am AND I don't have to draw it (because I really can't draw worth a hoot!). If they're good at sports or games, have them create a game that will use what you're teaching and incorporate some kind of sport into it. One of my more difficult students a few years ago was phenominal at football. So while we were studying food webs in fourth grade, he created a version of football where he assigned everyone an animal or plant and you could only take the ball away from something that you would eat. He even volunteered to be the Sun, which made him a sitting duck for all of the plants he'd labeled and I got to be the Human at the top of the food chain! Yes, I beat them ALL! mwahahahahaha!!! Anyway, I use those two to answer your question about how to motivate them. Find out what they're good at and exploit it to your own ends. Sounds rather sinister when you put it that way, doesn't it? oops...

Using questioning techniques is something that I believe that most teachers do. How I question my students and the use of redirects is an area that I could improve on. I feel that I could do better in questioning students so that the quality of conversations is put back on the students and creating engaging and productive discussions among students. I ask questions of my students and allow students to share their thoughts but I do not allow student to share whether they agree or disagree with their classmates and explain whey they feel the way they do. I can see the benefit of allowing wait time so that students can process the information and give them an opportunity to explain their thinking. From this article, I need to provide less commentary or explanation in our classroom discussions and allow students to do more of the explaining of the concepts that we are learning about. We have to be mindful that students are hesitate to share what they are thinking because in education we have become focused on having the right answer that students do not feel comfortable sharing for fear of having the wrong answer or not able to provide an explanation that makes sense. We have to get students comfortable in sharing with one another and being able comment on others work without the fear of being wrong. For me I know that I have to make our discussions more student centered and be apart of their conversations rather than leading them.

Tiffany, You gave an interesting perspective about students using this as a way to bully others with their comments. I had not thought of this and with the way some students are, this certainly could be an issue. Just as you have a standard about commenting on other drawings, this is something that we may have to apply rules to. I agree that you have to be careful in how this is used. We certainly will have create an environment for using this type of questioning and feedback. Kym

Craig, This is certainly a technique where we will have to allow time for students to feel comfortable in sharing. They will have know that it is okay to agree or disgree with your classmates and that it is acceptable to have different opinions from your peers. Some students are not comfortable with just sharing their thoughts, maybe allowing them to share what they are thinking in a journal will allow them to be more open in discussions. Some students need to get their thoughts on paper before they are willing to discuss them. Kym

Kym- I also think that I need to work on having students carry the conversation more.

As I was reading this article, I think that the fact that there are 2 weeks before the CRCT is standing out in my mind. All I can think about is the impatience that would come out of me at this point in the year. Honestly, I think that teachers are in the mode of talk, talk, talk to get all the last minute teaching in so the students will have some exposure before that test arrives! This is my primary thought. Secondarily, I am also thinking about the tangents that arise from asking the question, "Johnny, what did you think of Sally's explanation?" Where will the conversation turn, and is it required learning for the test? However, I also thought about how much better it is when I can be more of a facilitator and less of a talker. It takes more upfront planning to get labs ready for the students, but the payoff is how much easier the lesson is. Students learn more when they can do things hands on, so can't we then have the discussion follow the lab where students can come to their own conclusions based on facts and evidence? This is how we should be teaching, and the fact that these discussion promote "higher-order thinking processes" is what is most appealing. I think we've gotten away from debates and arguments because of worrying about covering content. I do believe that this type of redirection plays off the whole idea that teachers should facilitate and listen more and try to talk a little less, but it can be a difficult task for most teachers!

Craig, At this point in the year, I can definitely relate to the sound of crickets when you ask one student to explain a concept to another. However, I like your idea of using redirect questioning within an activity or lab. Once you are engaged in an activity, I think it will be easier to open up about the result of why something worked out the way it did. Usually, we are already in small groups at this point, also. So this may help with the hesitant or reluctant student by placing them in a smaller, more secure setting. I do think this can be an issue with a student who is less vocal or confidant. But it can also give the opportunity for that student to be expressive and earn a little self-confidence at the same time. Becky

Tiffany, Sometimes when we read articles, it does seem like the whole experience takes place in a vacuum. Therefore, it always seems like such a great idea to try with your own class. However, I can completely understand your concern with what happens after class. There are certain classes where you could have the students provide arguments, debate, disagree with each other (respectfully), and then there are those classes where you don't know what will happen later. A teacher definitely has to set the stage for a safe learning environment. Furthermore, I do think students need to learn how to disagree respectfully without it being a personal attack. Then again, I guess adults sometimes need that reminder, as well! Becky

How many times have I thought to myself,"I need to stop talking SO much in class." Even when we have discussions, I end up answering the students questions. Other times, students may contribute some knowledge of their own, then we move on. This article demonstrated the importance of allowing the students to respond to comments or insights made by their peers. I like to use the K-W-L charts with my students, and this type of discussion could fit in well with each step. I do see some problems. At least until the students are trained (or I am trained), I can't see telling them to break up into small groups and "discuss termite larvae." Each group would need a teacher to keep the conversation on track. It would be more manageable with the whole group. With a big group, there is less opportunity for each child to contribute. Another thing I need to think through is how to handle a situation where a student asks a question. I am thinking that I ask the other children what they think the answer is, and then tell them myself. The article was helpful in providing some questions to help draw quiet students into the conversation. Even if I didn't proceed exactly as the article explains, it would probably benefit my students to incorporate some of these ideas into my teaching. It makes sense that if the quality of the teacher feedback is improved, then the quantity of teacher feedback can be lessened. I do believe that some training in this area would be helpful.

Becky- Once again, the studies and the reality clash! Your point seemed to be that yes, facilitating meaningful discussions instead of teaching the CRCT would benefit our students. The reality is, my principal is going to display and analyze my students' CRCT results. However, we have a whole month of school post-CRCT, and I just might try this out when I have a little more teaching freedom.

Tiffany, You made some great points! It takes training to have controlled and meaningful discussions. It sounds like you have some "Discussion" rules in place - no making fun of someone's opinion. That was one of my concerns, and it may be possible to set some ground rules for having bully-free discussions. I find it really interesting that the kids do not comment on your drawings, because you already pointed out your lack of artistic ability (I'm sure you're just being modest).

Catherine, I feel the same way. It truly is more productive when we just facilitate the conversations. I have tried this approach in my science classes, and it seems to work better for me when students are working in small groups. There are some students that are more willing to speak up in their small group, than when we have whole-class discussions. You just have to make sure you are still facilitating each small group (a lot of walking around) so that everything stays on topic.

Tiffany, Your response was well thought out. I like how you handle students that do not participate. Playing to their strengths is always a good idea. Since my post, I have tried this in class and it worked with one class and not with another. In the class that it did not work in, I had a student complain and ask, “Why does he get to draw something?” In the other class, nobody seemed to mind. I enjoyed your ideas…thanks!

Becky, I'm with you.....I have less discussion between students because there is so much content to learn with so little time, especially in Science when there is little time to begin with. When students critique each others ideas, they say one good thing and one thing the student can improve on, but we rarely take the time for them to discuss why they feel like they do about an idea or concept.

Catherine, Like you, I feel like I do too much talking sometimes. I feel like I have to be the one to help them make connections to the real world. Though I do allow students to pair and share, tell a neighbor, and discuss ideas in small groups. The good thing about this class and these articles is that it gets us thinking how we can do things differently.

The information in the article was interesting. I have always thought if you allow too much discussion on a misconception some students will not be able to clear it out of their minds. However, I now understand how to allow students to clear up the misconceptions without saying that something is incorrect. I liked how the teacher discussed in Figure 2, focused the questions on “what did you see”, “what have you read”, and etc. This allowed students to think if they saw lungs in the seed they dissected. Conversations with other students and reflecting on first hand experiences will allow them to realize they did not see lungs. Wow! This type of learning/teaching would promote more student-to-student interaction. Science class would become more meaningful and enhance opportunities to develop each child’s abilities of doing science. Most students love talking and teachers would guide conversation to keep students on topic by redirecting. In recent years, stress has been placed on encouraging higher level thinking. However, asking “cognitively demanding questions may not elicit high level thinking or create better learning”. Powerful statement! High level thinking involves more than asking questions. I have had extensive training on asking higher level questions but zero on how to improve dialogic communications. I believe my students would benefit greatly from more redirects and feedback which allow exploration of student-to-student interactions. I would become more of a facilitator and only step in when needed. Students would have to learn how not to become the teacher and allow others to express their ideas (incorrect or correct). I foresee the advance students yelling out that something is incorrect especially if students were discussing the topic about plants having lungs. As a result, teachers and students will need guidance on how to incorporate this technique effectively in the classroom.

“Less Talk but Better Teacher Feedback” immediately reminded me of Mr. Gaydos, a former teacher who inspired me to become a teacher. He always seemed to have a question to ask, until the class developed the answer. Whenever I would ask him for help on a geometry problem, he would NEVER tell you the answer. But would asking students the “why and how” questions which forced the students process and evaluate the concepts until the answer was developed. I like using the “debate” approaching for students to agree and disagree on statements. This is something that I am eager to try with my Gifted Cluster. Eventually, I would like to try and create Science Debate Concept Cards. The students can work to research facts to prove or disprove the concepts. During science instruction, my students do more of the talking and developing of ideas. Even my principal commented on how little I talk during instruction. I tend to ask probing questions to guide my students’ thinking process. At times, the students do not have any background knowledge on the science topics. (Because science is not being taught in lower grades) Ideally it would be great to have the time to meet individually with each student. I need to incorporate less talk during ELA instruction. I do have my students explain their reasoning to an answer. But due to the lack of fundamental skills, more of my small groups are geared towards direct instruction and application.

Craig/ Tiffany, I do agree with you!! You have to “trick” the students into learning! :) We are always doing something, which looks crazy from an outside perspective, but is connecting concepts with the students. I love the football game that your student created. My little darlings are very artistic and love to create songs to accompany the concepts that we are learning. After I ask students to “explain” or “predict” they love to create chants and body movements. I also use the question, “Who would like to add to this?” It helps my shy students express their ideas. Tiffany, When we draw I like to tell my students that I was a fabulous artist that made millions before becoming a teacher ;) They get tickled when they see my hideous illustration and that motivates them to share their illustrations with the class.

Kymberly, It’s ok for students to be wrong with their initial answers. Many times the students, who were “wrong” then disproved, are the students who thoroughly understand a concept at the end of a unit. The students who gave the wrong answer needs to actively be a part of their own learning. Students can research on the computer or complete a lab that will disprove their theory.

Tiffany, I have found that many students these days do not know how to hold a polite conversation. Often they do not even realize that their tone or words could be seen as rude. It is a skill that many are not taught at home. Amber, I also see a lack of science in the lower grades. Having taught lower grades, I know reading is the priority, but it would be nice to see more focus put on science (maybe during reading time). "Better Teacher Feedback" makes a lot of good points. As teachers, we like there to be right and wrong answers. With better feedback, the thought process is seems more important than right and wrong (but eventually leads to the right). In my classroom I try to never say "No, that's not right", although sometimes you kind of have to. Probing students to go futher in depth with their responses can be frustrating, though. Often when trying to get students to offer their feedback, it is like looking at a deer in headlights. Trying to get students to think can be a difficult task. Requiring student-to-student interaction can help stimulate that, but it would have to be teacher directed. When put in small groups and simply asked to discuss, students often get off task and since the teacher can not be with all groups at the same time she/he can't be sure the information discussed is accurate. Without teacher guidance, discussion groups also have a tendency to get off track. By having the teacher be part of the discussion, there is an assurance of getting to the correct information. While some worry about students getting confused about incorrect information that may be brought up by a student, this is a good time to discuss why the information would not be accurate which may clarify confusion rather than creating it. It seems to me it is also important during this time to ask students to simply restate what another has said. Asking students to repeat what someone else said in their own words can help cement ideas as well as present it in another way so that others may get a better grasp of the concept.

my 4 year old son redirects me all day long, to everything he says "why", the article never mentions this classic stupor of a question, the more you ask it, and the more "correct" answers you get, it starts to get really hard (read deeper understandings and connections), i often try to answer his whys, we end up at the computer researching our unknowns, these often lead to some whats and more whys. i want to read an article about the power of why we will call it the super why redirect now for debates, i love em now for debates with hands on examples (even better) i think this and here is why (lawyer type stuff, i have evidence, i have predicence, the kid could have gotten a model of a true lung, a vertebrate lung) i once used a math formula to prove that i would have to have accelerated faster than the space shuttle trying to get out of a speeding ticket, i had only taveled one block and he said he clocked me at 75, no way could it happen, i used this formula and math in traffic court but the judge redirected me to tell the whole court i am sorry to have made the judge mad (i was the first case that day) why did the judge not want my rebuttle?

Listening more and talking less will be the hardest of these articles to implement! Teachers are so quick to fix misunderstandings. That’s our job! I like the idea of simply refocusing discussions and helping students construct their own proper understandings of big ideas. Again listening in and redirecting conversations will be tough in large classes with so many time constraints. Older grades are so focused on state assessments and primary teachers are pushing wpm accuracy and fluency. If our district supplied a lot more guided reading for SS and science standards we could all kill two birds with one stone! I am going to work on listening and redirecting this month, I'll let you know how it went!

Tiffany, I would love to watch you in action, great ideas. I can really see this working in small groups. Whole group would result in too many that tune-out. We need to be listening to 6 conversations at once! Does anyone have any great ways for each group to share observations and conclusions without losing the class' interest?

This article reminds teachers that we need to help students take charge of their learning and understanding. The article states that teachers often "hinder student interactions by interuptinging too often or by changing the type and structure of science ideas being discussed." Definitely as a teacher, it is hard to step back and let students lead discussions. We are aware of time contraints and making sure they learn what will be "on the test". However, it can certainly be helpful to students to know that the ideas they are having- misconceptions or not- are similar to other student's ideas. My students definitely get into debates and discussions on Social Studies topics,books we are reading, and I often push them to share their ideas about how to solve math problems. The key is to try to keep them focused on the subject matter that is relevant to the lesson. My weakness would be promoting this in Science class. Interactive discussions, such as the ones discussed in the article, are something I need to initiate more often during Science lessons. I like the idea of providing more opportunities for students to challenge and debate each other's ideas with discussions and research. Students would definitely need to be reminded that everyone's thoughts and ideas are important, and some would struggle with being too sensitive when others critique their idea. Students, also, definitely need to learn how to use higher order thinking skills. This article was a good reminder that teachers should give quality feedback to students and should try to reduce the quantity of that feedback! Definitely a hard thing to do in the real world!

Jennifer- I agree that it is so hard to get students to just think on their own! They want us to spoon feed everything to them. They don't seem to be used to thinking about much of anything- because they live in such an instant society! I think its extra hard during Science, when students struggle to really comprehend some of the concepts. Also, keeping groups focused is always a struggle with some students... guess that is where group jobs could be helpful- and lots of training!

Amber- I would also like to use a debate approach in class- especially with the talkative bunch that I have this year! Science debate cards would be great for students to work on- especially gifted students who need a challenge or those who finish classwork early. They could share with the class and everyone would benefit.

As teachers we definitely want ways to help our students develop concept understandings after exploration/activities in the classroom. We know that it is important that students talk with each other and share their ideas about what they have experienced, but as I read the article on better teacher feedback I couldn't help but feel that this is in the "if in a perfect world" catagory of my teaching in an inner city school. We always say that our time is limited in teaching science and we want to make the most of the time we have. Just getting hands-on activities done in a short amount of time with time left for groups to talk to each other and quickly demonstrate what they have learned in the most concrete fashion is a challenge. I am happy to have enough time after an activity to have students answer the essential questions I have on the board within thier groups. I would love to say that I will aspire to walking around the room and redirecting students in their discussions, but the reality is there just isn't enough time in my lab situation to do so. I will say that I could do this after shorter hands-on experiences and I do think it is a valuable type of feedback. Listening to students comments with each other as you travel around the room definitely gives a teacher more insight into student understanding. Providing students within a small group a chance to talk with each other while you use redirecting questions to help with multiple student perspectives would be beneficial when it could be done. In my situation, I have to be careful that this kind of discussion is monitored carefully, though, as many of my students can easily become distracted and have little patience in listening to class mates discussing something. Learning to listen to each other is an on going skill development.

Kymberly, I, too, feel that I could use additional practice in asking the right kind of questions that gets students thinking on different levels. I think that I know good questioning techniques, but it's just taking the time in a busy class period to do so. I also could use practice in letting students talk with each other in thier groups, redirecting when I can.

Jennifer, I agree that many of our students do not know what it means to hold a polite conversation. I think it's not something that is taught at home or at school very often. I like your idea of having students repeat back what someone has said in order to enhance listening skills. Being able to truly listen to another person is something that even many adults lack in life. I think it's an important thing to teach our students, even though it is challenging to do so.

Since reading this article a week or two ago, I have found myself returning back to what I read. Like others, I am preparing for the CRCT and these poor kids are hearing me talk, talk, talk all of the time. I get into the habit of it and forget to include them in the discussion. I am a fairly new teacher, and I am now making more of a conscience effort to ASK more and have them INTERACT with one another. I was doing a lesson on the culture of the arctic people of North America today, and when the point came where I would usually have them recall facts to what they learned, I had them to turn to each other and talk about what kind of house they would live in or what sort of things would they do with really long days/nights. It livened them up immediately. It was as if permission to TALK was an exciting gift. I look forward to using their conversations with one another for future evaluations.

Miriam- I have been working HARD at trying to get my students to be more friendly with each other. It is so sad when they go to share something with one another just to have another student attack them and make them feel silly about their ideas. We have started role playing scenarios on how to treat others in certain situations a couple of times a week and that has seemed to help with the hostility between them.

I like this article because it allows the students to figure out the solution by communicating with each other rather than listening to the teacher for affirmation of right or wrong. I teach students that sometimes there is no "right" or "wrong" in science. It is up to them to solve a problem and make it better. I also like the idea of asking students to comment on other student work (in a positive manner). The teacher needs to monitor student participation. I do this to keep everyone on task. The article states the idea of "redirect" in order to persuade students to think about science. I like the idea of redirect to bring students back to the task at hand and help my 4th graders move into abstract operations. Adults sometimes call this thinking outside the back. I ask my gifted students to solve the problem in other ways, especially when using observation skills. I want them to know there is more than one way to solve a problem. I also incorporate math problem solving skills with science as I don't think you can have one without the other. I often have students write about science activities. When we do this, I ask students to give me points about the project that they learned and as a group write these ideas on the board. I find that some of the students contribute ideas and that others can build upon. I also have other students who let others do the thinking for them. Some of this (especially small group hands on) depends on the students who can work together and are able to articulate their thoughts, both orally and in writing. My group this year can do that. I encourage science writing in preparation for science fair. One more thought about "dialogic interaction:" Students tend to tune teacher talk out the more they hear, so I like the idea of teacher feedback as redirection and less "that's right" or "try again." Some students who do not do well on written feedback also excel at the hands on and there are some surprising results in the small group activity. It takes some work to foster cooperation between students. It also takes careful planning and plenty of trial and error.

Tiffany, I completely agree about students picking on each other and making fun of other student's work. My students are constantly comparing themselves to other students and I spend a lot of time putting out fires. When I do a lab activity, I constantly walk the room to make sure everybody is on task and my dominant personalities are not taking over. I teach 4th grade and I definitely have some children who like to take the lead. I try to mix the grouping depending on what we are doing but I spend a lot of time instructing children to concentrate on task at hand and not to make personal comments about each others work or contribution.

Katrina, I like the idea of less talk, more facilitation. Students tune out when you talk too much duing an activity. It is true there has to be a lot of coaching so students will not just argue. But I also like the idea of letting the student figure it out without having to tell them what to look for.

i often look to pro hockey coaches for teaching guidance (great lesson from bruce beudreau, be toughest on your best players to bring all to their level) last night hockey,playoffs, in overtime, game 7, dale hunter the caps coach said to his team simply "game seven, overtime, we have nothing to lose, it doesn't get any better than this" no set plays no advice no inspirational talk no i have done this before and......... simply encourgaement to go have fun, to live the moment and enjoy it great example of less talk and redirect

it is fun now and then to blow smarty pants (bullies who boss around those and make some fear their ideas) away with total highbrow gibberish to kids but accurate info put on a dave chappelle professor voice and read something like this Structural evolution of the vertebrate lung illustrates the principle that the emergence of seemingly new structures such as the mammalian lung is due to intensification of one of the functions of the original piscine lung. The configuration of the mechanical support of the lung in which elastic and collagen fibers form a continuous framework is well matched with the functional demands. The design of the mammalian gas exchange cells is an ingenious solution to meet the functional demands of optimizing maintenance pathways from nucleus to the cytoplasm while simultaneously providing minimal barrier thickness. Surfactant is found in the most primitive lungs providing a protective continuous film of fluid over the delicate epithelium. As the lung became profusely partitioned, surfactant became a functionally new surface-tension reduction device to prevent the collapse of the super-thin foam-like respiratory surface. Experimental analyses have established that in lower vertebrates lungs are ventilated with a buccal pulse pump, which is driven by identical sets of muscles acting in identical patterns in fishes and frogs. In the aquatic habitats suction is the dominant mode of feeding generating buccal pressure changes far exceeding those recorded during air ventilation. From the perspective of air ventilation the buccal pulse pump is overdesigned. However in terrestrial habitats vertebrates must operate with higher metabolic demands and the lung became subdivided into long narrow airways and progressively smaller air spaces, rendering the pulse pump inefficient. With the placement of the lungs inside a pump, the aspiration pump was established. In mammals, the muscular diaphragm represents a key evolutionary innovation since it led to an energetically most efficient aspiration pump. Apparently the potential energy created by contraction of the diaphragm during inhalation is stored in the elastic tissues of the thoracic unit and lung. This energy is released when lung and thorax recoil to bring about exhalation. It is further determined experimentally that respiratory and locomotory patterns are coupled, further maximizing the efficiency of mammalian respiration. Symmorphosis is exhibited in the avian breathing apparatus, which is endowed with a key evolutionary innovation by having the highly specialized lung continuously ventilated by multiple air sacs that function as bellows. Functional morphologists directly deal with these kinds of functional and structural complexities that provide an enormous potential upon simple changes in underlying mechanisms.

To become more effective teachers we must promote more student interaction in small groups and whole group discussions. It is important for the students to feel comfortable in group collaboration for better understanding to take place. Students should experience science in a form that engages them in the active construction of ideas and explanations. Being engaged develops their abilities of doing science. For example, I give my kindergarten students the same amount of time that I have given my fourth grade students to express themselves concerning the concepts of science. I believe that students learn from one another and the teacher can observr the process with little feed back. According to the article teacher feedback should be focused around formative assessments. This formative notion is called redirecting. Redirecting questions, comments, or statements from teachers will engage multiple student perspectives into a discussion and it is a good way to provide formative feedback. Upon reflection it is so true because as a participant in the discussion, the teacher is encouraging students to share their ideas and to critique and consider their peers'ideas. The redirection has opened a dialogue that is not controlled entirely by the teacher. The article is very interesting because I have found out through the years of teaching is that when students feel comfortable expressing their thoughts without fear of being right or wrong they begin to express ideas that are very valuable to the learning process. Less Talk but Better Teacher Feedback is a powerful article that all teachers need to read in order to understand how redirecting benefits the student and the teacher.

Yes Kimberly, We all want students to be able to construct science understandings meaninfully. I believe that as an educator it is my responsibility to learn as much as I can in order for the students to become successful adults. The article shared some very good points on how to have interactive discussion in the classroom. Using redirects is a great way to improve student to student discussions.

Miriam, Even in Kindergarten student interaction is vital in the learning process. The children learn better when there is not a fear factor of expressing their ideas. When students are active and engage in expressing and constructing their ideas this enhances and develops their abilities of doing science.

I think we do try too hard to guide and control the conversations. I think that we have a problem letting go, because we fear them not getting to the right answer or not learning what they need to learn. Learning, as teachers, to redirect like it says in the article will take some practice, but I think we can do it. I also think that time constraints has a lot to do with how we teach. Feeling rushed sometimes to get everything done affects how we teach and redirect the students. Planning well and taking that extra time will help solve that. Replies: Kimberly: I agree that most of us need practice knowing which type of questions to ask and how to guide the discussions. Becky: I think your right about this. They want us to teach a certain way that doesn't line up with their testing. Guess that's why they're changing it.

This article suggests teachers talk less during discussions by refocusing student discussions. It is recommended the teacher improve the way feedback is given to students. I like how the teacher in the article suggested the students comment on their classmate’s comments. This can be a good and bad thing if the students aren’t trained properly. I think this method would be more effective with upper grades but can be accommodate some way in the K-2nd grade classrooms. For me personally, talking less will be challenging for me. As most teachers may agree, we have a habit of giving the “right” answer to students when they give the “wrong” answer. I think asking other students what they thought about what was said will be a great way to start student discussions and hopefully get to the “right” answer. With this method I would also have to watch to make sure every student is actively participating which could prove to be difficult with large classes or those students who tend to speak out more. I would have to find a way to get the quiet student to offer his/her opinion. I think in order to foster proper student discussion I need to do a better job at asking open-ended questions during my science lessons. In most cases I just want the students to give me the right answer so we can move on. This process will definitely take some time implementing in the classroom but I can see the benefits in the long run.

In Response to Kathy Whitney: I totally agree with you Whitney. This will be one of the hardest methods for me to implement in my class. We immediately want our students to get to the right answers so we are constantly redirecting or prompting for the correct answer. Please be sure to let me know how everything works with this method in your class. If anyone can implement this method in the kindergarten class I’m sure you can.

In Response to Jennifer Kuszmaul: I agree with your comment about getting students to think can be a difficult task. I’m beginning to think it’s a skill that cannot be taught although we as teachers try. After reading this article I can see now that maybe it’s not that the students can’t think, it’s the type of questions I’m asking and the fact that I’ve gotten used to feeding my students the answers.

Teachers spend most of their work day offering some type of feedback to their students. This feedback may be written, as in teacher commentary, or verbal. However, some of the feedback we give to students is not really feedback, at all. Teacher responses such as good job, right, wrong, yes, and no do not provide students with a true idea of the value of their response or work. These short and vague statements do not really explain to a student why their response or work is acceptable or not acceptable. Feedback should be more involved and more direct in order to be effective. Effective feedback can be offered at all levels of instruction (elementary, middle, or high) and with all types of students (regular, special needs, gifted, early intervention, or english language learner). Effective feedback may also be offered individually, or in small-group and whole-group settings. Students may also give feedback to each other. This is an often overlooked resource in the classroom. Student feedback allows the teacher to interject only when necessary, thus creating an atmosphere of student-led learning and ownership of one's own education. To allow this type of discussion allows students to feel more in control of their situations and time. Feedback must be detailed and precise in order to direct instructional time effeciently towards the goals of the lesson or concept at hand. Our students, then, will feel more open to the idea of expressing the thoughts they have without fear of a short, curt answer from either their teachers or their peers.

John- I never thought to look to sports coaches for good feedback methods...good idea! Ellen- you are right that most students are better at offering feedback in a variety of ways...we don't want to force those square pegs into those round holes.

Ellen: I am placing one of your suggestions in my toolbox (Write students points learned about project board). I have always asked students for thoughts but have not taken the time to write on board and save. At the end of the year, I could print all points learned and give to students as a gift. I am sure they would be amazed at how many topics and points they have learned. Some students do tend to tune the teachers out who are excessive talkers. Redirection help student keep students focused and allow students to use their own critical thinking skills.

Tiffany, I agree with your comment on how to motivate students by allowing them to shine. The idea of the football food chain is fabulous. You need to start marketing that one.

James, I agree with the idea that we need to construct our class time to allow students a time to discuss the concepts. Think about when we learn something new - it helps to talk about it and clarify your thinking. I do find when I encourage discussions in small groups it helps to have identified roles so that they keep on track. Even with that some groups do digress.

Thea, That is a great tool to use to ensure the students understand-Pair Share is what it is called. I tell them to turn to a neighbor and bla, bla (whatever the EQ was) and then give them 5 minutes to discuss. I often go join different groups. Then I ask the students to share shomething their neighbor said.

When reading the article it reminded me of driving the car when my children have friends with them. I do have rather odd children who enjoy “verbally sparring” with their friends. Kathy, I’m talking about the TSA meetings when I drove the boys home. I just sit back and listen while learning quite a bit about my child and my child’s friend (and their family). The kids feel safe with one another and realize that even though they disagree each has a right to an opinion. Sometimes they are able to bring their friend around to their thinking with enough facts and my iPhone Google capability. In a perfect classroom, the students would be able to debate scientific ideas. This allows them to find the errors in their thinking. We have to teach them how to disagree. Usually in the classroom teachers ask the children not to disagree. This takes a whole new mind shift. It also takes a lot of team building in the classroom. Once students feel safe with one another then you can take the next step to encouraging the children to debate an idea. So before I’d jump into redirecting questions, I’d work on creating a cohesive classroom where children feel confident in taking a risk.

Becky, I agree. Most teachers are talkers and we feel if we tell them something they will know it. That is not the case. We need to let them discover ideas and concepts in order for them to own them. In the "we need to cover this" mode many are in the time for discovery and discussion is lost. We all need to remember to let the kids do the appropriate talking.

Melissa: I agree with your statement about most feedback from teachers is not really feedback. We condition students to think that once they speak the teacher must say something. It was amazing for me at the beginning of the school year to watch my students react when I ask a question and listening to responds without commenting. They wanted to know if the responses were right or wrong because that believe no response from the teacher means a wrong response. Effective feedback contributes to the lesson and encourages student learning without hindering student participation.

Mary, I understand what you are saying about "guiding the conversation". I feel like this is how much of our classroom conversation goes because of that time factor. There is so much to teach and so little time. Plus I feel as though, like many schools, when students enter the upper EL Ed, this is their first real exposure to science inquiry. Since this is their first exposure, many of the students need the additional structured support during discussions.

This article worried me a little. I enjoy having group discussions with students and using questioning to have students explain their thinking. What worried me was the student to student discussion. I am hesitant to use this technique because a lot of our kids have a hard time talking to each other about anything without it turning into an argument. I understand that you would need to model and teach and promote a safe learning environment so students could feel comfortable commenting on another students thoughts or ideas, but I still worry about students always feeling like they have to be “right.” I had a group last week get in a fight over what wax paper was called; someone always has to be right. I also worry about leaving students to discuss something without the teacher facilitating. Students have enough misconceptions that I would worry about them confusing a whole group with one idea that sounded good to everyone. I also worry about groups staying on topic in such circumstances, one of my 4th grade groups always turns the conversation to sex (how you get that from prisms, I do not know). I think the teacher to students redirecting is very important and I think it’s great in class when a student can reference what another student has said/done but the examples in the article seemed to be a little leading in the direction of a right answer. Isn’t it better to ask a student why they think something rather than ask them why someone else does?

Miriam, I too felt this was a “perfect world” type article. I agree 100% that discussions need to occur and teachers need to give feedback but I really worry about what would happen when students are asked to comment on other students, especially when the teacher picks them. I visit tables while students are working and make a point to ask them questions about what they are doing/seeing, but a whole group discussion after is often not an option due to time.

Susan, I agree that before tackling this concept you need to teach children how to respect each other’s ideas. I like how you mentioned that students need to learn how to disagree with each other. That is so important, especially when they spend so much time in school trying to get the right answer. They need to learn that there isn’t always one right answer and how to deal with it.

Great idea Craig! I think trying to carry this out in lab groups is a really good idea.

craig - i think that if students get involved in dialogue from an early age the crickets will vanich

I have long been a proponent of the use of dialogue in the classroom and am glad this article is reaching out to get more teachers involved. The curriculum I learned from school was the core knowledge elementary students needed, but it was presented in a come and get it, but you’re on your own as to what to make of it all manner for teacher as well as student. It did not delve into the ways to teach and the hidden curriculums many teachers harbor that I later learned about. Teachers teach what they know and what they believe, whether it be consciously or unconsciously. All teachers should be exposed to learning and to dialogue to heighten their awareness of what they are actually passing down to students, because it is those beliefs and actions that perpetuate the hatred and lack of interaction. If not, we merely reproduce the status quo of the ideal white, middle-class student and set up so many to abject failure because we are not recognizing and respecting the differences. The article proposes letting students discuss science ideas without giving any feedback – I think that defeats the purpose of dialogue. Students should be discussing with the teacher as a facilitator redirecting the course of the conversation.

Marilyn, I agree with you that many students are afraid to express their ideas, but if they learn at an early age to participate in discourse and are in an environment that is open to ideas without negativity they may overcome this.

After much thought about this article...I think....I really like it. ACtually I went to school and tried it first before I made my post. For a first try, the kids even seems to like it. When a student gave me an answer and I looked at another student and said "What do you think about that?" the student looked at me like "Really?!?!? I get to say what I think?!!???!!!". It definitely made me consider how much I allow students to say what they think about science. After that look, I guess it's not much. Oops! I agree with many of you that to do it right, for kids to continue to feel safe to take risks in our rooms while using this method, there will need to be some ground rules. There will need to be some talks about what and what not to say so that people's feelings don't get hurt, so that arguments remain few and far between. However, once students have the hang of it, teachers may barely need to speak during these types of discussions. It would be time consuming, but the benefits to be had of the higher level thinking are tremendous. Once students are trained, it wouldn't have to be used in just science. I would be very interested to attend some professional learning on argument based inquiry.

I agree that many of our students do not quite understand exactly what a polite conversation is. I am always on my students about their tone to each other and model how to say things in a polite way. To be successful at this, they also need to understand that a disagreement doesn't have to be an argument.

Sue, Our boys have mastered the art of argument. They have strong opinions and love to argue a point. If only we could bottle that for classroom use. I have spent all week biting my tongue and allowing my students to post entries about our tadpoles and then discuss. Fun? absolutely! factual? sort of. Instead of correcting them I've checked out a number of books on frogs/toads life cycles and planted them strategically about the room. Love it when they post a random fact they read earlier as their observation. Yet another lesson to be taught. Right now we're just observing and debating.

As I was reading this article, I found myself needing to take a step back and do more teacher redirects.Less is more. I need for the students to have more interactions with each other and let them start probing about the topic.Hopefully this would help the students come up with higher order reasoning processes. I need to take the argument based inquiry aproach.I think this would help more students be engaged in the lesson and less opt to opt out of the lesson.I feel the students would definitely listen to their peers more than to me all the time.I want my students to discuss science concepts in a meaningful way.

Tiffany I like the idea of creating games for the students to get involved with the lesson. I want to try this to see if it works

Noel I agree with you that a lot of students are not able to express how they think or express an opinion on a topic. I need to give more opportunities for this to occur. Also I do realize these children need to be civil when talking to each other and be respectful.

Maybe this is the opportunity to try a little cooperation between school personell? Perhaps involve the School Counselor or the Social Worker to teach students how to interact with opinions and no one being "right" or "wrong?" I've noticed that there is more of a desperate need with my classes to be the one who is "right" (or who acts really silly when they're wrong). This might be a good chance to combine our efforts and take a little of the "this only happens in a classroom" mentality off of having a difference of opinion?

Response to “Less Talk but Better Teacher Feedback This article has a lot of valid points. As educators, we often want to help students figure items out and sometimes say too much. I think of the teacher we observed, Mary “Brad” Bailey and one of my complaints was that she led the students too much. I have to admit that I am sometimes guilty of this as well. We help too much and don’t let them explore the topics for themselves. One way we all learn is from our mistakes. I have even told my students several times that the cool thing about science is that it is fine to be wrong when it comes to making predictions or hypothesizing. This reminds me of a workshop I went to a few years ago to discuss standards-based commentary on students work. We discussed how to move it on from just a “Good job.”, but onto addressing their actual work in relation to what they’re learning. This article is suggesting a similar idea (redirection), but only to encourage higher level thinking skills as students learn. It makes sense that as the students get comfortable with an argumentative inquiry, the teacher would have to redirect less. I am curious to see how students from different achievement levels would respond to that type of activity. Sometimes it is challenging to get students from lower achievement levels to use higher thinking skills. As the authors suggested in the last part of the article, it would be interesting to have some sort of professional development on this subject. I’m not sure that I would want to video myself and play it for other colleagues to discuss. I would be afraid of having someone want to offer more rather than less feedback!

Craig & Becky, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is hearing crickets! Also, Becky I can relate to your thoughts about CRCT. Of course, now it's here. I hate that I find myself thinking about the CRCT so much as I teach. It's just another reflection of how much pressure teachers feel when it comes to assessments now.

Tiffany, You have a good point about bullying. Some students would take the comments more personal others and may try to retaliate at a different time.

Response to "Less Talk But Better Feedback" by Wanda Gordon Wow, everyone!!!It is funny to me to notice HOW MUCH EVERYONE HAS TO SAY about "LESS TALK BUT BETTER TEACHER FEEDBACK." We do love to talk!!!! I know many of you, and I know Tifhany's students. Few people can teach them effectively - - because it requires inate understanding of both them and the content. Makes me think of the different types of students that we all see. Our different comments are comming largely from our experiences with the particular type of student we teach!! Tiffany has her finger on the pulse of her students. She knows how to disarm "awoll" conversations by tossing in not just a good question about the curriculum, but a question about the curriculum which will MOTIVATE HER PARTICULAR STUDENTS to answer the question she has posed. It's about getting the most done with the fewest words possible. We have to be masters at several skills: 1. Our content -- on many levels. 2. Our students' interests and personalities. 3. PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT: How do we as teachers learn to master the art of combining the first two items, and ending up with real gains in achievement??? That marvelous #3 happened to me last week when I taught an enrichment science lesson (THROUGH MUSIC) to a bright class of 4th graders who already knew their sound and light material. I was able to stand in front of them with a huge blank buletin board paper, and construct the entire ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM on the paper by only asking them guiding questions!!!! But I knew ahead of time what they really did know - - and I knew my material well enough that I KNEW I COULD COMBINE THE TWO - -and get #3 - - but it actually felt like magic - - to me and to the students. But to others less informed about the details of #1 and #2, my description probably seems like some corrections need to be made, or that the lesson would not be exciting. We were all electrified over the height we reached when their ability and my sensitivity and handling of the content combined at just the right temperature - - because I knew them so well - - that something more akin to a chemical change came over us all, as we went through the process. You have to know both sides innately, then combine them artfully --then you can get the most done with the fewest words.

Kathryn, you are really cooking!!!! I love the actions of letting the kids respond by posting, then planting the books and watching for an impact!!!! You have it going on girl!!!!!!!! It works when the teachers are as good at what we do as the students are at what they do!!!!!!!! that was marvelous, insightful, and inspiring!!!!! I must make a way to utilize that technique with my next year's students!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wanda Gordon

You are onto it, Noel. I often ask "why" repeatedly of my students, until they reason full circle through the concept I want them to get. I also often ask one to comment on another by asking "Is he/she right?" before I acknowledge correct reasoning or answering. It also causes everyone to remain involved in the discussion - - not just the one I called upon originally. When a student quotes the text, I congratulate him/her for being a good reader, then ask them what the statement meant. Most of them go blank until I get them to help explain the statement. then we talk about what it means to really understand something, and I totally discourage them from quoting. I do that consistently - - even in their classwork. I require them to say everything in their own words. All quotes must be rewritten in the students' own words. I often ask them to Tell-Me-All-You-Know about a small topic, and they earn points for every good poing they can make about the topic - - with no quoting. I encourage self explanation by allowing them to earn as many extra points as they are able, even over 100, if they have that much understanding and recall. Then I save those extra points and add them onto classwork grades. I ask them to work alone for a few moments - - then I allow pairs for a few minutes. It helps the flow of knowledge, and takes the pressure off a bit. I find this to be an invaluable tool for formative and even summative checking. Those who are able to learn more and shine have a chance to stand out, which they love to do. This fact helps me to raise the bar of achievement. I later list the number of earned points in groups on the board, so they can see where they came in -- so they can learn whether to push harder, or whether they are excelling. They need this type of feedback also. The more I do it, the better they get at it, and the more they are learning - - and can explain!!!!!!!

As I was reading through the article and the statements of colleagues I could not help but reflect on my teaching practices with relation to encouraging student dialogue and promoting assessment strategies in an on-going manner. I like to think (maybe I'm a prisoner of my own imagination) that I facilitate the learning process when it comes to instructional practices. Anyone looking into my learning environment from the outside often sees pandamonium or chaos running amuck. What is really happening is a true exchange of dialogue, ideas, and experiments in collaborative work groups in a safe setting. I rarely sit, so I am able to "work the room" interjecting, guiding, monitoring time on task, and making sure the students participate in their learning. Many of you posted that you feel you lecture too much. We as teachers tend to be real control freaks. We want to be in charge. To successfully encourage dialogue, get the students talking, have student leaders in the class, we have to give up some control. That makes most of us uncomfortable. I am fortunate in that sense, I do not have to have all the control. I am a stickler for the rules, though. Respect, responsibility, caring and sharing, all have guidelines we follow to encourage participation in a non-threatening manner. I love to listen to student dialogue. It helps me assess and monitor the learning taking place. I also like to think I let students work through misconceptions, collaboratively finding solutions to problems. Oftentimes a student who understands a concept does a much better job explaining it to peers than I did with my approach. When the ground rules for disucssion have been laid, students are much more willing to engage in conversation and discovery if they are comfortable. Maybe because I have been crafting, reflecting, revising, and modifying my entire teaching career it is not important for me to lecture. I do not find out what students know when I do not give them an opportunity to talk. Walking into my classroom, you will rarely see me "up front" giving lectures...but you will hopefully see students empowered with self-selection for guiding their learning in a number of differentiated stations.

Response to "Being Deliberate about Concept Development" by Wanda Gordon "Data does not tell us what to think." It must be interpreted. The point of this article is that we too often teach to a point where we believe the students should have grasped the idea, and then we move on. Sometimes we stop short by 1. expecting students to get it on their own. 2. Explaining to them what they should have discovered. 3. Introducing new information without creating a connective experience. 4. Introducing vocabulary before students understand the concepts, etc. So, we need to slow down and be much more deliberate in seeing that the outcome is achieved. We forget how easily data can be misinterpreted or applied wrongly in so many ways that are inconsistent with the accurate idea. The "logic leaps" be they small or large, must be guided intentionally, carefully, and specifically toward the target. Then we must ascertain whether the students arrived at the targeted understandings, without misconceptions or misapplications. I love the phrase, "logic leaps." In a posting for a different article, I told the story of a ministerial employer of mine who always left the congregation hanging by actually NOT STATING the main point of his sermon - - because he had been taught not to overstate the obvious conclusion - - to let the parishioners draw those conclusive points for themselves - - so that the points would be more personal I suppose. He needs this article also. My attempt at intervention in that scenario had no impact. He was certain they would all arrive at what I call "His Desired Conclusion." In a small way, we do the same thing with our students, inadvertently believing that our congrived lessons/experiences are so thorough that we can't fail. Oh, contrare. "Data does not tell us what to think." It must be interpreted, even if it seems to us to be a logical, infallible flow of logic. If we were checking closely, we'd see... So - - apparently we're not checking closely enough, and our contrivances, as good as they are, amy still be missing the mark. That will wake us up. Many students will not quite grasp the big idea with the focus we need for them to experience. Many will get caught up in the details, assuming they have arrived at "Our Desired Conclusion." I paraphrased the process thusly: "Exploration Concept Development Exploration Concept Refinement Exploration Concept Refinement Exploration Concept Refinement etc." Multiple exploration phases should be followed by concept development phases. And we must be continually deliberate, as the students trust us to provide effecient learning experiences for them.

This is in response to Rebecca's post; more directly to her question: "I am curious to see how students from different achievement levels would respond to that type of activity. Sometimes it is challenging to get students from lower achievement levels to use higher thinking skills." In my experience...Allowing students more control of the dialogue and occurrances in the classroom empowers them with more ownership and makes them act more responsibly. Peers can often times explain a concept, process, proceedure to their workstation mates in a manner more comprehensible to all participants. Not stifling the dialogue generally promotes higher level thinking skills. I read once that by 2nd grade 80% of a child's curiosity and creativity have vanished...why? Because we tell them what to do, when to do, how to do, and why they are doing it. Natural outcome - thinking for oneself becomes overrated; I'll just wait till the teacher tells me what to do and how to think. We unconsciously deter higher level thinking in favor of more mailable students.

Reply to Wanda's post "We have to be masters at several skills: 1. Our content -- on many levels. 2. Our students' interests and personalities..." I whole-heartedly agree with you. For the last 7 years I've taught 6+ grade levels of science content. Learning to assess and compact prior knowledge became second nature to me. The content was familiar but I had so much to learn about the students to be effective. Coming from a school where I knew colleagues, students, entire families; where I'd taught more than one sibling...to one where I knew 2 staff members, almost none of the students, and needing at least five years to really get to know the families, Wanda is so right...you have to know your content and students on so many levels to talk less and get better feedback.